One might hope that higher education would have a role in quelling the violence and normalizing civility. About half our population earn college degrees; graduates provide leadership in many organizations and institutions. What they learn in college provides the foundation for the example they will provide to others.
Berea College, recently rated the best school for upward mobility, earned a failing grade for its support of free speech and academic freedom (as did a majority of the schools surveyed). A majority of student respondents believed that shouting down someone who expressed offensive views was justified while nearly a quarter even endorsed the use of violence to prevent the expression of potentially hurtful views.
A timely & thoughtful essay... Up to now, I've tended to think that the popular "Weimar America" thesis is wrong or at least overblown. The USA today is certainly very different from 1920s Germany, though the US is seeing a high degree of political polarization, cultural fragmentation, economic uncertainty, street chaos and extremist violence, including assassinations. I still don't think America is on the verge of a civil war, but as of today the Weimar America metaphor seems to make a bit more sense to me. And there's not a cabaret or avant-garde art movement in sight...
Your comments are much needed but sadly I fear not read by those who need to read them the most, there are people in the online commentary ecosystem who I have encountered who express poorly thought out statements saying that Kirk's assassination was some form of "Karma" for his more controversial political positions.
These are people who are radicalized, not because they disagree with Kirk, but because they have developed the reprehensible belief that Kirk somehow 'deserved' on some level what happened to him because of his views
They are I fear unpersuadable. I have tried for years and failed for years to talk these type of people away from excusing violence. I have reported the most egregious of these comments over the years for encouraging violence and usually nothing comes of it. The tech companies care more about international market share than limiting rhetoric excusing violence.
I don't know who these people are, I am not even sure that they are even Americans. Perhaps it is wishful thinking to believe they are not Americans. But there is a potential some of these most egregious comments are from foreign nationals from hostile nations who are trying to whip up division among Americans.
All too often what we see on the internet is not entirely what it might appear to be. Russia runs troll farms. I can't help but suspect that some of these most egregious and vile commenters are not even American citizens but could be part of information influence operations by a foreign power or just private nationals of countries that are generally culturally hostile to the United States.
All I know is that I have seen this all before, on deployment, in Afghanistan. And that is not a future anyone should want to live in. Afghanistan is what happens when people stop settling disagreement with ballots and debate and start solving them with bullets and bombs. It is no kind of life.
There are those who are divorced from the center and are anxiously waiting for an excuse for justifiable violence.
“Thirty-four percent of college students recently said they supported using violence in some circumstances to stop a campus speech, according to a poll from the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression published a day before the Kirk shooting. Since 2021, that share has risen from 24 percent, which was already unacceptably high. Surveys of older adults are similarly alarming.”
Thank you for your consistently moderate and common sense voice, especially today. I don't always agree, but I do always enjoy your sharp thinking expressed so reasonably and so well. We need a lot more human beings like you.
Political violence isn't on the rise, it may even be declining slightly. But it is getting better documented, had a slight shift in targeting, and it is far far harder to hide it. That is the big big change, and what that change may bring is anyone's guess. Kennedy, MLK, Malcom X, Reagan shot, These were just to big and had to get a lot of coverage, but at the same time hundreds of other were dying by the one and two all over the place. I grow up during part of that. Kennedy was killd the year I was born. They would make the head lines in their home town, but that was about it. IT is now far harder to sweep it under the rug. That makes the chance of an explosive reaction to it far higher, and much more likely to spread. Some think that censorship is the answer, but I have doubt. That is more likely to make things worse not better. Other have the idea of getting people focused on conflicts overseas, Russia, Middle East and SE Asia to keep things from blowing up here. But that has big big problems too. Good men are dying. But good men have been dying for standing up for my enter life. Most of the time it doesn't explode, and most of the time there is someone to step into their shoes. What is most likely is that there will be nothing offered by any side that will make thing better. Both will say if you just did it our way, this kind of thing won't happen. But history doesn't support that idea.
Mr. Thomas is correct, I was absolutely not surprised by this heinous act. Great article, Katharine and all too true. RIP Charlie Kirk (1993-2025)! May his memory be a blessing! I don’t care who it is, It could be someone who I vehemently disagree agree with, they have the right to free speech and the right not to be murdered for it even I really don’t like them. I didn’t care for Charlie Kirk at least as a political commentator. But I’d never celebrate his death. The normalization of political violence in this country is shocking and appalling and has been getting steadily worse over the past eight years. We are so close to civil war its frightening. The only time we were closer was 1860. Our republic is in its most difficult period since the Great Depression of the 1930s. We need to turn down the temperature on our political rhetoric and we need to start de-polarizing America and make serious strides at it in the next ten years or America will cease to be. I truly believe that in my heart. There will be no America in ten years if this keeps up. Red and Blue America will get a divorce and that’ll be the end of that. The war will start there with one side trying to impose their will on another. That can’t be aloud to happen we’ve got to save this Republic and restore it to its greatness.
Is this the America Nathan Hale he had regretted he had but one life to give for? Is this the America Dr. Joseph Warren and Casimir Pulaski gave their lives in battle for? Is this the America that Thomas Paine envisioned when he wrote Common Sense? Is this the America that is a shining city on a hill the Pilgrims dreamed of? Is this the America that the men who stormed the beaches of Normandy on D-Day put their lives on the line for? Is this the America Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Malcolm X and Medgar Evers died fighting to build a more prefect union for? Is this the America that Abraham Lincoln, James Garfield, William McKinley, and John F. Kennedy were assassinated while governing because they cared so deeply about it they devoted their lives to public service?
Those are questions we need to answer and fast if we want a better future for us and our children. How would George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln feel about America if they were alive today? They’d be absolutely horrified! I can just see John Adams and Ben Franklin in Heaven right now weeping for America. I can see Jack and Bobby Kennedy cursing our generation for ruining the great country they worked so hard to serve. I can see Walt Disney, Jim Henson and Mr. Rogers shaking their heads and wondering why the lessons they sought to teach us are being ignored. I can see Dwight D. Eisenhower, George S. Patton, Douglas MacArthur, George C. Marshall, and Omar Bradley questioning whether their service really accomplished anything. I can see Sitting Bull, Fredrick Douglass, Cesar Chavez, Larry Itilong, and Susan B. Anthony decrying how identity politics and third and fourth-wave feminism are undoing all they worked for. I see Uncle Sam himself asking where he can get a refund for all the time and effort he waisted trying to represent our nation with pride when we have given him such a broken down old hunk of junk to represent.
Unfortunately, the leadership of our government is not helpful in making us as citizens feel safe or secure in the future of our democracy. Indeed, we no longer have a democracy an for most of us this is not normal American life that we have grown up with or can see that it’s not sustainable for the future.
Back in 2012 I was debating my commie🤣 brother about what I see that society is headed to if we don't intervene. (I was debatibg the then rise of frequent language being used by the left.
I put it this way.
>"I don't like what you say"
>"I don't like what you say, you ideas are dangerous"
>"I don't like what you say, you are dangerous, we must stop you from speaking"
>"I don't like what you say, we must by force, stop you from speaking"
>"I don't like what you say, you are dangerous we must build camps herd you into those camps and kill all of you because you destructive to the greater good of the world.
We are now at the point where next step is the camps.
Agree
Excellent argument, Katherine.
One might hope that higher education would have a role in quelling the violence and normalizing civility. About half our population earn college degrees; graduates provide leadership in many organizations and institutions. What they learn in college provides the foundation for the example they will provide to others.
How are colleges and universities doing? According to FIRE's latest survey of 270 institutions, not so well. https://rankings.thefire.org/?utm_source=substack&utm_medium=email
Berea College, recently rated the best school for upward mobility, earned a failing grade for its support of free speech and academic freedom (as did a majority of the schools surveyed). A majority of student respondents believed that shouting down someone who expressed offensive views was justified while nearly a quarter even endorsed the use of violence to prevent the expression of potentially hurtful views.
Disheartening...
A timely & thoughtful essay... Up to now, I've tended to think that the popular "Weimar America" thesis is wrong or at least overblown. The USA today is certainly very different from 1920s Germany, though the US is seeing a high degree of political polarization, cultural fragmentation, economic uncertainty, street chaos and extremist violence, including assassinations. I still don't think America is on the verge of a civil war, but as of today the Weimar America metaphor seems to make a bit more sense to me. And there's not a cabaret or avant-garde art movement in sight...
welcome to Weimerica! You know what comes next.
Your comments are much needed but sadly I fear not read by those who need to read them the most, there are people in the online commentary ecosystem who I have encountered who express poorly thought out statements saying that Kirk's assassination was some form of "Karma" for his more controversial political positions.
These are people who are radicalized, not because they disagree with Kirk, but because they have developed the reprehensible belief that Kirk somehow 'deserved' on some level what happened to him because of his views
They are I fear unpersuadable. I have tried for years and failed for years to talk these type of people away from excusing violence. I have reported the most egregious of these comments over the years for encouraging violence and usually nothing comes of it. The tech companies care more about international market share than limiting rhetoric excusing violence.
I don't know who these people are, I am not even sure that they are even Americans. Perhaps it is wishful thinking to believe they are not Americans. But there is a potential some of these most egregious comments are from foreign nationals from hostile nations who are trying to whip up division among Americans.
All too often what we see on the internet is not entirely what it might appear to be. Russia runs troll farms. I can't help but suspect that some of these most egregious and vile commenters are not even American citizens but could be part of information influence operations by a foreign power or just private nationals of countries that are generally culturally hostile to the United States.
All I know is that I have seen this all before, on deployment, in Afghanistan. And that is not a future anyone should want to live in. Afghanistan is what happens when people stop settling disagreement with ballots and debate and start solving them with bullets and bombs. It is no kind of life.
There are those who are divorced from the center and are anxiously waiting for an excuse for justifiable violence.
“Thirty-four percent of college students recently said they supported using violence in some circumstances to stop a campus speech, according to a poll from the Foundation for Individual Rights and Expression published a day before the Kirk shooting. Since 2021, that share has risen from 24 percent, which was already unacceptably high. Surveys of older adults are similarly alarming.”
Thank you for your consistently moderate and common sense voice, especially today. I don't always agree, but I do always enjoy your sharp thinking expressed so reasonably and so well. We need a lot more human beings like you.
Yes
Political violence isn't on the rise, it may even be declining slightly. But it is getting better documented, had a slight shift in targeting, and it is far far harder to hide it. That is the big big change, and what that change may bring is anyone's guess. Kennedy, MLK, Malcom X, Reagan shot, These were just to big and had to get a lot of coverage, but at the same time hundreds of other were dying by the one and two all over the place. I grow up during part of that. Kennedy was killd the year I was born. They would make the head lines in their home town, but that was about it. IT is now far harder to sweep it under the rug. That makes the chance of an explosive reaction to it far higher, and much more likely to spread. Some think that censorship is the answer, but I have doubt. That is more likely to make things worse not better. Other have the idea of getting people focused on conflicts overseas, Russia, Middle East and SE Asia to keep things from blowing up here. But that has big big problems too. Good men are dying. But good men have been dying for standing up for my enter life. Most of the time it doesn't explode, and most of the time there is someone to step into their shoes. What is most likely is that there will be nothing offered by any side that will make thing better. Both will say if you just did it our way, this kind of thing won't happen. But history doesn't support that idea.
Mr. Thomas is correct, I was absolutely not surprised by this heinous act. Great article, Katharine and all too true. RIP Charlie Kirk (1993-2025)! May his memory be a blessing! I don’t care who it is, It could be someone who I vehemently disagree agree with, they have the right to free speech and the right not to be murdered for it even I really don’t like them. I didn’t care for Charlie Kirk at least as a political commentator. But I’d never celebrate his death. The normalization of political violence in this country is shocking and appalling and has been getting steadily worse over the past eight years. We are so close to civil war its frightening. The only time we were closer was 1860. Our republic is in its most difficult period since the Great Depression of the 1930s. We need to turn down the temperature on our political rhetoric and we need to start de-polarizing America and make serious strides at it in the next ten years or America will cease to be. I truly believe that in my heart. There will be no America in ten years if this keeps up. Red and Blue America will get a divorce and that’ll be the end of that. The war will start there with one side trying to impose their will on another. That can’t be aloud to happen we’ve got to save this Republic and restore it to its greatness.
Is this the America Nathan Hale he had regretted he had but one life to give for? Is this the America Dr. Joseph Warren and Casimir Pulaski gave their lives in battle for? Is this the America that Thomas Paine envisioned when he wrote Common Sense? Is this the America that is a shining city on a hill the Pilgrims dreamed of? Is this the America that the men who stormed the beaches of Normandy on D-Day put their lives on the line for? Is this the America Dr. Martin Luther King, Jr., Malcolm X and Medgar Evers died fighting to build a more prefect union for? Is this the America that Abraham Lincoln, James Garfield, William McKinley, and John F. Kennedy were assassinated while governing because they cared so deeply about it they devoted their lives to public service?
Those are questions we need to answer and fast if we want a better future for us and our children. How would George Washington, Thomas Jefferson and Abraham Lincoln feel about America if they were alive today? They’d be absolutely horrified! I can just see John Adams and Ben Franklin in Heaven right now weeping for America. I can see Jack and Bobby Kennedy cursing our generation for ruining the great country they worked so hard to serve. I can see Walt Disney, Jim Henson and Mr. Rogers shaking their heads and wondering why the lessons they sought to teach us are being ignored. I can see Dwight D. Eisenhower, George S. Patton, Douglas MacArthur, George C. Marshall, and Omar Bradley questioning whether their service really accomplished anything. I can see Sitting Bull, Fredrick Douglass, Cesar Chavez, Larry Itilong, and Susan B. Anthony decrying how identity politics and third and fourth-wave feminism are undoing all they worked for. I see Uncle Sam himself asking where he can get a refund for all the time and effort he waisted trying to represent our nation with pride when we have given him such a broken down old hunk of junk to represent.
Let's not act surprised.
https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/why-many-americans-might-be-increasingly-accepting-of-political-violence/
Unfortunately, the leadership of our government is not helpful in making us as citizens feel safe or secure in the future of our democracy. Indeed, we no longer have a democracy an for most of us this is not normal American life that we have grown up with or can see that it’s not sustainable for the future.
you need to post this on X too.
Back in 2012 I was debating my commie🤣 brother about what I see that society is headed to if we don't intervene. (I was debatibg the then rise of frequent language being used by the left.
I put it this way.
>"I don't like what you say"
>"I don't like what you say, you ideas are dangerous"
>"I don't like what you say, you are dangerous, we must stop you from speaking"
>"I don't like what you say, we must by force, stop you from speaking"
>"I don't like what you say, you are dangerous we must build camps herd you into those camps and kill all of you because you destructive to the greater good of the world.
We are now at the point where next step is the camps.
I made a video version of this. :)
It started before that. In 2009 Glen Beck used to go on Fox News every night and say Obama was planning to put people in FEMA camps.